Hire Truckers Podcast

00:00 - 00:18
Aaron Craddock: Welcome to the Hire Truckers Podcast, where we interview experts in driver recruiting. We provide industry insights, marketing trends, and motivation to help you level up your recruiting game. Welcome to the Hire Truckers podcast. This is Erin Craddock, and I'm your host. Today, we have Brad Hackett joining us.

00:18 - 00:46
Aaron Craddock: Brad is a seasoned driver recruitment executive with over 15 years experience working in operations, logistic logistics, recruitment technology, and in director of recruitment roles. Over the past few years, Brad pushes the boundaries around process and team improvements. Brad is currently serving as the director of recruiting and retention at Novalines. I always enjoy his positive posts on LinkedIn and his professional development wins, and that's part part of why I reached out to Brad to have him on the show. So welcome.

00:46 - 00:47
Aaron Craddock: Welcome, Brad.

00:48 - 01:06
Brad Hackett: Awesome, Aaron. I really appreciate the introduction and having me on. Before we get started, I really just wanted to say not only how passionate I am about these topics for our industry and leaders collaborating, but also just the discussion amongst leadership. There's this weird stigma. I don't know if you've seen it as well.

01:06 - 01:23
Brad Hackett: I don't know if it's specific to trucking or just leaders in general, but a lot of default mode of keeping things really close to chest and not sharing. And I just love the collaboration amongst leaders, discussion best practices, and us working together to help each other win.

01:25 - 01:54
Aaron Craddock: Yeah. Yeah. One of the things I've noticed, you know, being in the industry around 12 years is, yeah, just the hesitancy to share best practices and things. And so when we launched Trucking Clicks and got back into driver recruitment about 2 two and a half years ago, Like, we put in our vivid vision like, hey. We're gonna publicly share the best practices, marketing tips, like, even what we do to help fleets be successful and just facilitate a conversation.

01:54 - 02:28
Aaron Craddock: And because one of the things I noticed in our industry is the tendency to not share, like well, what first is to not celebrate other people's wins. And so I want our entire team to celebrate other vendors, other technologies, things, because I I think one of the things you had mentioned to me when we chatted, there's a big enough market. You know, there's enough market share for all of us. Like, we don't have to, you know, hold things close to our chest to, like, keep them as protected secrets. Like, hey.

02:28 - 02:54
Aaron Craddock: This even on the marketing side, you know, like, this Google strategy can you know, with your first 10% of your budget, get you 5 times the results. Like, let's just share it and, you know, get it out there in the market. And and then that puts pressure on the vendor side, like, that I'm on that, hey. We can't be doing the same thing 6 months from now or we're gonna be out of a job. And so but that just makes the whole market better if we all share the information.

02:54 - 03:20
Aaron Craddock: Everybody gets better at the same time. And and then, you know, on the vendor side that we just provide a more competitive, you know, product for you. So I think I think we can celebrate each other's success and then share things both on the vendor side and then amongst recruiters. Like, I know, you know, just several director recruiting my my network that share with 5 others, like, hey. Here's the strategy that's working for me.

03:20 - 03:36
Aaron Craddock: Here's the spender that's working for me. Here's this technology that's working for me. And and we all get better. And it's not, you know, that if they get better, you're gonna be out of a job because they're gonna beat you. It's just kind of a completely different, mindset.

03:36 - 04:17
Aaron Craddock: And so that so I really appreciate you sharing that, and we're we're on the same page there. So and our goal kind of at this show today and most and most of our shows is just add as much value to the industry as possible. Like, how can we help executives, you know, improve how how they run their teams, how they communicate with with their recruiting department and other depart and retention departments? And then, you know, how can you know, what it might be that somebody gets one little tip out of this show that improves retention by 10% or 5%. And, like, it's hard to even put a dollar value on that when you're dealing with, you know, a 200 plus tree truck fleet, for instance.

04:17 - 04:17
Aaron Craddock: So

04:17 - 04:38
Brad Hackett: Yep. We're all spending immense amounts of budget and a ton of time, big teams, big goals. And as you mentioned, Aaron, there's plenty of marketplace for us all to win and firmly believe leaning in each other, iron sharpening iron, and us all improving creates a healthy competition and healthy dialogue for us to drive each other forward.

04:39 - 04:55
Aaron Craddock: That's right. And so the first section that we talk about on the show is industry insights. And so my first question on that is what data should recruiters pull and measure success on to be metric driven in their recruitment improvement?

04:55 - 05:57
Brad Hackett: Great question, Aaron. One thing I spent a decade in operations before being thrown in this wild world of driver marketing, recruiting, onboarding, retention kinda sector here. First thing there is, make sure your ATS and the vendors that you use, the data starts with what is feeding your funnel. So understanding your funnel, those key metrics, your cost per lead that's entering into your ATS, how are you converting those leads to applications, what does your approval process time look like internally as the drivers go through those steps? Those are key areas for not only your recruiters to help fine tune and maximize their skills, but also to make those financial decisions that you're spending a lot of money on all of those efforts, making sure you're not dropping candidates through each of those steps, and then also fine tuning those adjustments so that you can maximize your spend and ultimately get the best performance out of your marketing and your your recruiting efforts.

05:58 - 06:19
Aaron Craddock: Yeah. So if you had to if you had to dive into that a little deeper, like and let's say you're coming into a new recruiting department and you don't know your cost per hire, cost per lead, you know, percentages through, to orientation approval rate, all of those things. Like, where do where do you even start?

06:20 - 06:49
Brad Hackett: Yeah. I believe you have to start with your process and the ATS that you use. If anybody in this space is not using a applicant tracking system, you you gotta get one to get set up. That's your source of truth for all of your driver data. There are several major players out there that do a fantastic job of setting up all of your driver data and all of the intricate processes that we have to put drivers through, regulatory and internal processes included to help get through each of those steps.

06:50 - 07:04
Brad Hackett: So with that, your funnel starts with what's feeding into that. So your marketing efforts, making sure you have that set up with your referral codes or whatever that looks like within your ATS to have that trackability top of funnel and throughout that process.

07:05 - 07:30
Aaron Craddock: That's great. So, specifically, kinda I know you've been with a 1,000 plus truck fleet, and then, you know, you're with a 300 approximately 350 truck fleet now. So as you've come into the these recruiting departments and improve both retention and, cost per hire metrics. Like, what are what are the most influential changes that you've made in these fleet recruiting departments?

07:31 - 08:05
Brad Hackett: Yeah. First thing is making sure that you're making good decisions and equipping your team with good and accurate data. So data driven, concise, and consistent recruiting information that's in front of your recruiters that builds confidence in what they're selling. It creates that link between sales, what they're bringing into the organization, operations, what they're delivering day in and day out. And having that with the recruiters that this is what mister or missus driver, we're gonna be able to confidently deliver with coming into our organization.

08:06 - 08:42
Brad Hackett: So what we've done, I did both, adventure, like you said, 1,000 plus fleet as well as, Novo lines about 350 trucks today is making sure those recruiters not only understand, but they've got a great structure, clear structure of what each of those jobs look like. So they understand the position that they're recruiting for. They've got the actual data in front of them of this is what we're delivering on. This is what the driver should expect from revenue to deductions to take home pay. And each of those intricate benefits of your program, both pros and cons.

08:42 - 09:15
Brad Hackett: So that equips them with what that driver is actually gonna experience with your organization, And you can get in front of any of those areas that could be a potential roadblock and build that confidence with the recruiters. So having that data driven and also the clear structure, so it's ease of access as recruiters have so many steps in the process. A lot of those conversations with the drivers being able to reference that information quickly for their confidence and their accuracy and what they're speaking with those prospective candidates is extremely key.

09:17 - 09:26
Aaron Craddock: So even something as simple as just confidence in the job offer that they have clear numbers. Have you seen that, you know, make a tangible impact?

09:27 - 10:06
Brad Hackett: Yeah. One of the things we found when I was at Venture, they had a really complex, awesome model with a lot of dedicated positions. Our crews had to recruit for over 80 jobs across the country. So you can imagine 80 jobs, 80 different potential structures of pay package, the schedule that the drivers are gonna be doing, types of equipment on down every detail that can get quite cumbersome to keep up with. What we found in organizing that and getting it concise is getting that quick access to the recruiters makes those conversations a lot more fluid between the driver and the recruiter and equipping them with that accurate information to go off of.

10:07 - 10:40
Brad Hackett: But what was surprising here and that we found and found in several instances here is by doing that research, there are certain positions that you're spot on. You're recruiting exactly what you're delivering for, which is great. But we found both ends of the spectrum of some, we were overselling to drivers leading to unnecessary turnover, and we were selling this number and only delivering on this number. So making that adjustment so you have truth in what you're marketing to, recruiting to is beneficial for sure. But, also, we found some other ends of the spectrum as well.

10:40 - 10:56
Brad Hackett: We were advertising and speaking to, say, $1200 take home a week, and the drivers were getting 14.50. So getting that level set of data driven pieces of information to go off of to sell exactly what you're gonna be able to deliver confidently.

10:57 - 11:14
Aaron Craddock: Yep. Yeah. One of the things we focus on at Trucking Clicks is just radical honesty. And I think that that's kinda what you're equipping your recruiters with is is honesty. And I and I think I've seen with a lot of recruiting departments that they'll oversell the position.

11:14 - 11:29
Aaron Craddock: You know, I think that's the most common. And, you know, whether it's regards to promising more home time than they actually get or or pay. Like, hey. You're gonna get this much when, hey. The average driver may make 30% less.

11:30 - 11:44
Aaron Craddock: And so it so have you seen it be worth it just to again, like, let's just be radically honest, tell the driver even the pain points. Like, do you ever even dive into here are the pain points of a position?

11:44 - 11:54
Brad Hackett: Yeah. That's one of the favorite things. Our we have a great team of recruiters here at Novo lines. They do a fantastic job. We we work together as a team and collaborate extremely well.

11:54 - 12:26
Brad Hackett: But one of those areas, especially in the the market shifts that we've seen some radical market shifts here in the last couple years, is that the radical candor and the honesty and up frontness is so much more appreciated by those drivers of being able to say this is what we're gonna be able to deliver on. We're not selling you with this gimmicky bonus program or hopes and dreams of x, y, or z with our program. We're an over the road flatbed lease purchase company at Novo lines. That's all we do. That's our specialty.

12:26 - 12:49
Brad Hackett: So getting in front of the drivers gotta be willing to tarp majority of the time. It's December here in the Midwest. We get some crazy wet weather swings across the country, dealing in the elements, not so fun sometimes. Our drivers lease purchase, they gotta stay out 2 plus weeks at a time. If a driver's looking for that consistent daily home time, we're not a fit for them.

12:49 - 13:26
Brad Hackett: So items like that of being real and upfront with the drivers of not only financially and equipment wise and operationally, what you're gonna expect at your organization, but also addressing those potential hurdles upfront in a recruiting conversation where you may be a fantastic candidate, meet all the criteria. But if our home time isn't a fit for what you're looking for, let's wish you the best and get you on your way and not lead you along on false pretenses or vagueness in your recruiting talking points. Let's just go ahead and be upfront from that throughout the entire conversation.

13:28 - 13:39
Aaron Craddock: Now I'm kinda curious. So then do you do you shift those, like, relabel those in your ATS, like, if it's not a good fit? Just, like, not interested. Like, what what status would you put on that?

13:40 - 14:07
Brad Hackett: Yeah. Extremely passionate on accurate data in your ATS. So extremely powerful tools with automation and every system, no matter what you use any industry, it's only as good as the data and the processes that you put into it. So we would put, say, a driver is not interested in home time for our program. We'd mark them as a not interested status, and then we've got an appropriate label for that within our ATS of it's home time related.

14:07 - 14:18
Brad Hackett: So we can potentially reach back out with some marketing in the future to see if their home time, what they're looking for potentially changed, areas like that within your system there.

14:19 - 14:29
Aaron Craddock: Yeah. Or your offer may change. I mean, you never know. Because I see I see some fleets not doing that, like, not reclassifying, like, just, hey. Let's leave it there.

14:29 - 14:36
Aaron Craddock: And then they just have inaccurate data on, and then they have a new recruiter come in and reach out to that guy that's already been contacted.

14:36 - 14:50
Brad Hackett: Right. He's already told you 6 months ago, it's not for me, and you're you're spamming them and wasting not only spamming them and annoying the candidate, but wasting your precious time of your recruiter that could be spent with candidates that are actually interested. Yep.

14:50 - 15:01
Aaron Craddock: Yeah. And with good notes, you can call back and say, hey. I know this was hometown related. Like and then again, it's that touch point, you know, back to what they said. It's that instant instant credibility.

15:02 - 15:08
Aaron Craddock: Like, oh, they're actually looking out for me. And then you can get in another conversation because sometimes that does change.

15:08 - 15:27
Brad Hackett: Right. How powerful is a conversation that, say, we had a certain truck type a year ago that the driver wasn't a big fan of, and we mark the notes and we get a new truck delivery of the model that they're looking for. And you proactively reaching out and say, hey, Aaron. I know we spoke last year. You were looking for that Freightliner.

15:28 - 15:38
Brad Hackett: We we just got a delivery of Freightliners. Is this something you're still looking for, and how much weight does that have versus sitting and waiting for Aaron to potentially call us back in the future.

15:40 - 15:46
Aaron Craddock: That's great. And so yeah. And a lot of times, these drivers are hearing from 5, 10 different fleets.

15:46 - 15:46
Brad Hackett: You know?

15:46 - 16:21
Aaron Craddock: And so it that that may seem like something small, but you can you can completely differentiate because 9 out of 10 carriers may not actually be doing that. So so I love that point. So one of the things we talked about on our pre call is is talking about, like, recruiter compensation. And, you know, since our audience, a lot of its directors are recruiting and executives in the industry, What have you kinda learned on comp packages for recruiters that, you know, both motivates them and also aligns with with your company goals?

16:22 - 16:41
Brad Hackett: Yeah. Director recruiting is one of the toughest gigs in the game. You've got constant pressure to get the positions full, be dynamic. Sometimes you feel like you're only as good as your last recruiting class of orientation, etcetera. So first is getting that dialogue and understanding from the top down, what are your organization goals?

16:42 - 17:11
Brad Hackett: Are we in maintenance mode as a lot of fleets are right now with this market? Are we in rapid growth mode going crazy aggressive to really grow the fleet? What's the urgency? Do we have to fill these positions in a month, or is it an overtime solution? By getting that understanding, you could really fine tune your incentive structure and your team structure, not only on the marketing that you're putting into the funnel, but as you mentioned on the recruiter compensation as well.

17:11 - 17:28
Brad Hackett: What I found is a good mix of at the time of hire and retention aspect is a good balance with the recruiter so that they're not just focused on the quantity to get those spots full as quick as possible, but there's also that quality element to hopefully make sure that driver's equipped to stay.

17:28 - 18:02
Aaron Craddock: So one of the things I've noticed, if it's all just get them in the door, then you, you know, you can have a deviation. Even if you have the values of radical honesty, which I know you do with your teams with the drivers and giving them the best information. You know, sometimes you can misalign incentives and then people try to get them in the door because then they get that, you know, bonus or hit their numbers. So what what kind of balance have you found there? Like, let's say, a 90 day retention bonus like you were talking about versus just, incentive for for getting them in the door?

18:03 - 18:12
Brad Hackett: Yeah. Again, it's really tough. You're in a tough spot as director of recruiting. You've got your recruiters that wanna make as much money as possible. They want it all up front.

18:12 - 18:35
Brad Hackett: Right? And then you've got your safety operations and your leadership team that wants to keep drivers as long as possible. So I've seen everywhere across the spectrum of a 100% at the time of hire. It's ops's situation to keep them all the way to you're not getting a dime until that driver stays until 90 days. What I found is a good balance of that.

18:35 - 19:01
Brad Hackett: I like somewhere of the 75 ish percent at the time of hire. The recruiter's doing the majority of the work to get that candidate qualified, get them sold on your organization and your position, and ultimately get them sold in in the door for your orientation. And then roughly that 25% left hanging out for retention to have that quality aspect, there is a balance that I particularly have found successful.

19:02 - 19:17
Aaron Craddock: That's great. What about, like I'm kinda curious on this. I don't know what much most fleets do here. But do you have, like, a guaranteed base, like, typically for recruiters and then that's on top of that? Is that how that works, or is it just commission only, or is it kind of a mix in the industry?

19:17 - 20:09
Brad Hackett: Wide mix in the industry. I've talked with peers that they're a 100% salary, and they just they have goals and hold their team accountable. And I've talked with others that you've got several contracted only positions that they have to get hires or they're not getting paid at all. Again, I kinda like that that balance of a livable wage that is, not a crazy high salary, but then really having a crystal clear and simple incentive structure so that your most hungry recruiters that are gonna do the most work and get the most hires can make a really good amount of money, but it's not so top heavy that your lowest performer is also highly compensated there. So, again, I I kinda like that balance of a a pretty solid base and then aggressive, simple, and defined bonus structure on top of that that's really clear for them to understand.

20:10 - 20:30
Brad Hackett: One last thing on the compensation for recruiters, don't get stuck in the box. I'd recommend on your incentive structure that you've got for your team. One of my favorite things that I've done over the years is I call them sprints. Like, a short term, like, hey. This month, we need x number of drivers for ABC dedicated account.

20:30 - 20:58
Brad Hackett: We're looking to get that full. Anybody that, gets drivers hired, we've we've obviously got our transparent and clear simple to understand bonus program for you. But for this month, we're gonna run whoever gets the most hires gets a couple $100 Amazon gift card and make it a team short term. I call it a sprint. So you're sprinting after that goal for that particular time frame, creates that extra oomph and that extra dynamic with your team.

20:58 - 21:01
Brad Hackett: And, hopefully, you can have some fun with your team around that as well.

21:03 - 21:15
Aaron Craddock: Mhmm. Yeah. We had the former director of recruiting for, CRST. So, like, say the same thing. He's, like, the most motivating thing we've ever done, like, for our team, like, that has that collaboration.

21:15 - 21:47
Aaron Craddock: And sometimes they fight after more than, you know, even even the comp, which is significantly more, is those gift cards and just the thought of, hey. We recognize what you do. And then and then I think also it's just that camaraderie of and, like, team building and competitive spirit and growth mindset as a team. I think it it just the cultural implications are crazy. Just a a little little things like that, whether it's, like, unrecognized gift cards, like, like, like, unplanned just, hey.

21:47 - 22:03
Aaron Craddock: You know, we weren't you know, we just noticed the extra effort you put in this month and here, but then also those preplanned incentives and sprints. I like I like the way you word that. You do that, like, typically every month or quarterly or just ad hoc. Like, how how do you kinda decide when you're gonna do that?

22:03 - 22:22
Brad Hackett: A little bit ad hoc. As we know in tracking, the goals change constantly on that. When when there's a big dire need, like, to throw that out, it probably balances to a one solid one a quarter. And if you get a tie, I would recommend a epic rock, paper, scissors battle like I've had them passed for a $200 gift card that makes it extra spicy for them.

22:23 - 22:42
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22:42 - 22:58
Aaron Craddock: Trucking Clicks is your go to place for high quality direct leads at scale. Visit trucking clicks.com or call 512-982-0816 today. What other things do you do to kind of build relationship with your department, Like, with your recruiting department?

22:59 - 23:12
Brad Hackett: That constant dialogue, I know a lot. Like, my team is a 100% remote. I work hybrid at the terminal every couple weeks in Chicago. And then I'm in Indianapolis. We've got a couple in Chicago, one in Alabama, one in Kansas.

23:12 - 23:48
Brad Hackett: So that remote environment makes that it's a great it's got tons of pros and cons, working remote or hybrid, but it makes it harder to have those interpersonal conversations in those small you can't pop by somebody's office and say, hey, Sue, how was how was your weekend? How's things going? You have to go through an extra barrier to have those conversations. So being intentional on that is extremely key. Managing a team like that of not only getting your one on ones set up and consistent, that constant engagement, team chat, team calls, but also just that communication.

23:48 - 23:54
Brad Hackett: You almost have to overcommunicate even more in that environment than you would have in person.

23:55 - 24:19
Aaron Craddock: Yep. Yeah. We actually, with the trucking clicks and hire truckers teams, are, you know, mostly remote. Like, I have 1 1 per 2 people in Austin with me, and then everybody else is remote. And I used to think that having a conversation around, like, how was your weekend or whatever, like, because I was purely business minded was, like, a waste of time and wasting company resources.

24:19 - 24:46
Aaron Craddock: Like, that probably sounds insensitive, but that's really the way I thought. And but I've just found, like I mean, you know, we we spend more time working, working with our coworkers than a lot of times with our family, you know, after hours and on weekends. And so it it's just so important to build those relationships and have those conversations about life. Like, it's not just about filling trucks. It's about what are your goals outside of work?

24:46 - 25:16
Aaron Craddock: What's a big win? One of the things we do in our leadership meeting every every Monday is we go through and we're like, hey. What's one personal win from the last week? And it you know, it's been anything from got a new dog to, you know, hit a hit a workout goal or read this new book or, I mean, really anything. Like, my win from this last week is, like, I took a weekend with just my dad and my 3a half year old, and just playing a little trip to a VRBO and hung out.

25:16 - 25:52
Aaron Craddock: And, you know, completely not work related, but, you know, it's important within office teams, but exponentially more important with with fully remote teams. And I and I've kinda find now to get the best talent, like like, post COVID, you know, at least for us, like, we we have to go remote. Like, let people, you know, if you want the best of the best in the industry, you gotta let them work from wherever, and it it just you know, it's kinda kinda changed everything. And then we try to get the team in person quarterly. So, like, every 3 months, like, how can we get everybody together or most of the team together somewhere?

25:52 - 26:04
Aaron Craddock: So maybe, you know, Mid America Truck Show or Women in Trucking, you know, maybe we tack it on to another event and just get get as many people as we can together. Super, super important.

26:04 - 26:05
Brad Hackett: Very nice.

26:05 - 26:15
Aaron Craddock: So next, we'll go into the section on just marketing trends. So what what are you testing now or have you tested in past few months, in your marketing?

26:16 - 26:50
Brad Hackett: One of the things that I'm a big fan of that has been a shift not only with myself, but some industry peers. And this again goes back to that power of networking and collaboration amongst is feel like during COVID, everybody was in hyper hyper growth mode, can't get drivers in fast enough, growing like wild across the entire industry. A lot of that brought out some some weird bonuses out there. We were going after sign on bonus chasing. There was a lot of you had to be the top one in your sector in the marketing, or you felt like you're not gonna get candidates.

26:50 - 27:15
Brad Hackett: I've seen a lot of shift, and I think it's definitely for the best of pulling back on that. And in the mindset of more, let's undersell and over deliver and speak with confidence about what's real and what we're actually gonna be able to deliver rather than just try to throw the highest dollar or manipulate marketing potentially to look like you're 1% better than your peer down the road is is one of the things I've seen.

27:16 - 27:24
Aaron Craddock: Yep. Like, what have the results kinda look like on a high level just over the last 12 to 18 months?

27:24 - 28:13
Brad Hackett: A lot more candidates per position for sure. Where, again, speaking to during COVID, you couldn't get drivers in fast enough that everybody was trying to get drivers in. And now a lot more fleets like ourselves are closer to that full mark for your fleet. So it's more the quality focus, really vetting out the candidate. I've seen a lot of hiring guideline shifts in the last couple years as well, where when you're trying to bring in as much as possible, a lot of carriers kinda loosened up on those hiring guidelines, whether that's accidents or number of jobs or experience in that, seen a lot more fleets, ourselves included, pull that back in to, again, lean on that quality candidate more so than the the quantity that has been a major focus the last couple of years.

28:14 - 28:31
Aaron Craddock: I I remember for a season, it was like going from, like, post post COVID like, going from, okay. Well, you need 2 years experience. Okay. Now you only need 1 month or 1 year experience. Now you only need 9 months experience, and then 2 weeks later, 6 months experience.

28:31 - 28:53
Aaron Craddock: And, you know, most fleets, like, bottomed out at, you know, 3 months experience, like, even even for OTR levels. And then now I'm seeing, like you're saying, kind of the inverse of, alright, 2 years experience or, hey. I'm only bringing on the guys that are, you know, the best of the best with 10 years, 15 years experience, you know, now that trucks are full.

28:53 - 28:53
Brad Hackett: Yep. We've

28:53 - 29:22
Aaron Craddock: seen just major it's crazy how quickly this industry can swing, you know, massively. And I and I think we saw you know, I've been through 4 4 cycles of recruitment, kinda downturns and spot rate changes. And this last one was the most aggressive. Just, I mean, it was it was wild. And sometimes their departments had to increase their budget, like, on just the paid marketing side, like 4 x.

29:22 - 29:23
Brad Hackett: Right.

29:23 - 30:01
Aaron Craddock: And then and then now we've kinda seen a reversal of that this past year to 18 months. The last section, which I get most excited about and particularly with you, is, around mindset and motivation, because I I'm always encouraged by your just, like, hey. Have a great week posts. And and if you're not following Brad on on LinkedIn, I would recommend you give give Brad Hackett a follow. So what do you think mindset should be of a recruiting director kinda as you you've been in multiple roles in that capacity over the last couple year, last last decade or so.

30:02 - 30:21
Brad Hackett: Yeah, Aaron. I fully believe mindset starts everything. Like, everything drives from the attitude and mindset that you bring to anything in life. Again, I I've we're all wired very uniquely to be those that are in this sector and our recruiting directors. We've got really tough gigs out there.

30:21 - 30:58
Brad Hackett: We've got really short term aggressive, big problems to solve for our organization. We've got a sales recruiting team that we've got to lead and keep motivated. And as you mentioned, with all of the market swings, you have to keep up not only organization wise, but delivering that message over communicating to your team. There's a lot on our shoulders. So all that to be said, I I don't think there's it's been a mindset of mine that it's really wasted time if we're either negatively focused or talking down about any other person, either internally or externally.

30:59 - 31:32
Brad Hackett: And I've just seen compound not only in my personal life, but professional life, the power of building each other up, having each other's backs, showing each other that, hey, we really do care about each other. And even if we're competitors in the space, like, like I said before, there's plenty of market share. We all can win here, and I would much rather live in a internal circle and world where we're building each other up and leaning on each other in iron sharpening iron than one that's poking and prodding and trying to find any way to put a peer down.

31:33 - 31:51
Aaron Craddock: Yeah. One of the terms I heard you say, we're discussing some of this earlier, is, like you mentioned it a little bit just now, but touch more on, like, reserved optimism. Like, what is that, and why should a recruiting director be in that posture and and also just topic executive leadership?

31:52 - 32:23
Brad Hackett: Yeah. I like the the phrase reserved optimism because in recruiting, again, our our entire approach is sales. We're selling our organization to prospective candidates for them to come on board and join our organization. So if you're not at least leaning on the optimism and positivity of that, I'd question you're you're maybe in the wrong wrong role there. But you can't also with that, you can't be overly optimistic, overly aggressive, and go wild because this market is really complicated.

32:24 - 32:47
Brad Hackett: We have a lot of factors at play, a lot of things that are way above our head, industry trends, rates, things of that nature with interest rates, etcetera. So you wanna lean into that optimism, but in a reserved function to not only have attainable goals with your leadership team and your day to day team, but also not be too aggressive at the same time.

32:48 - 33:26
Aaron Craddock: Yeah. How do how do you keep the line of communication open, let's say, like, with the c suite that, you know, is really looking at the p and l, like, both both on the, you know, downswing when freight freight rates are down, the companies are less profitable, not decreasing recruiting spend too much, but then also on the upside, like, when you do need more budget and there's an opportunity to pick up market share, how do you keep that line of communication open so that you don't make, you know, decision at the wrong time that could could cause massive, you know, negative impact down the road?

33:27 - 33:45
Brad Hackett: Yeah. I think it's extremely important, especially director level. We're managing teams of teams. We're in a unique spot usually close to leadership and also having to manage downstream as well. So managing upstream with your c suite or your leadership team is getting alignment on what those goals are.

33:45 - 34:18
Brad Hackett: What are we what are we shooting for as a team? What's that look like the next quarter? What's that look like the next year? What's that look like the next month? So not only just week over week getting inundated in the day to day and getting very short term focus there, but aligning that and getting the clear and concise data to discuss, have good dialogue on what we're doing, what what we're where we're pointed, where we're aligned to, not only week to week, month to month, but looking out quarters and a year ahead where we're going.

34:19 - 34:33
Aaron Craddock: Yes. That's kind of my question. It's like, how far out do you plan? How frequently should again, in an ideal ideal situation? I know you've worked in a few different roles, but how often ideally should you be doing that, and how far out should you be planning?

34:35 - 34:46
Brad Hackett: I like our structure at Novo lines. We've got weekly cadence with our leadership team and the other departmental leaders. So we're discussing what's right in front of us. What's the outlook look like? How's our turnover?

34:46 - 35:15
Brad Hackett: How's our class size? Making sure we're balancing that to keep a good fleet level with where we're at. But then, also, Lee, on that monthly or quarterly basis, having that more long term discussion that, yeah, you're gonna have your week to week of what that's gonna look like, but especially alignment up the chain of command so that you're planning as a team, you're planning in that dialogue in the same direction that they wanna go, and you can reiterate that. So I'd say monthly or quarterly on those more long term discussions.

35:17 - 35:45
Aaron Craddock: That's great. And then one of the questions we had that came in from LinkedIn, again, I'd recommend you follow both Brad and I on LinkedIn, because I we always ask, you know, what what you want on the show. So the question from Ginger is, last week, I had a director of recruiting ask me, what can I do to reduce driver ghosting between an approved application through safety and manager approval, all the way to orientation?

35:47 - 36:17
Brad Hackett: That's solid question. A lot of us, we're spending a ton of money, ton of time investment to get these candidates qualified and hopefully in the door. And there's probably nothing worse in this space than you have a a candidate that's rock solid on paper, has given you the verbal commitments, and then they no show to your orientation this morning when you expect them to be there. So I've not talked to anybody that's a 100% on this. I don't think anybody is amazing as any any team or any structure can be is gonna get that way.

36:17 - 36:45
Brad Hackett: But I found success in leaning into a couple areas to help improve the show rate from here to here. Not again, not quite perfection, but definitely a lot closer than where we were months prior. A couple of things that we've done is the clarity of the communication with the drivers, looking at what emails, what text are going out from the recruiters during that process. So you've got that driver. You're actively recruiting them.

36:45 - 37:12
Brad Hackett: They wanna go the next step to submit that full app, get them approved. The clarity of communication, what does that next step look like, mister or missus driver, so they can expect what's gonna be that next step. As we all know, drivers are talking to often multiple carriers. I think 10 Street shared it at recent conference on average 5 from what they've seen with their data. I've seen elsewhere that so you're you're basically competing with 5 sets of information with that given candidate.

37:13 - 37:59
Brad Hackett: So the clarity of your messaging is astronomically important so that they can reference that, understand what those next steps look like. On down the pipe when that driver is fully approved, we get them scheduled for orientation. Another thing that we've done that's one of the favorite things that I do in my role even at the director level is getting a management touch point with that driver. So the Friday before their orientation, I'm calling every single driver individually and going over a solid checklist of making sure they understand our program, making sure they have all of their flight rental car information, making sure it's clear on how our hotel works when they land. So easing that candidate of what's gonna be that process of them coming on, because it's a big decision.

37:59 - 38:33
Brad Hackett: They're making a big job change. They're it's a life changing decision for them to come aboard with your company. So anything that you can do to not only solidify their decision to come on board with as much clarity and information and conciseness as you can, but also to make them feel the warm and welcome to your organization that somebody from executive management is taking 20 minutes out of their time to introduce them, make sure that they've got all their questions answered, and that they feel comfortable coming on board with with Novo lines or whatever company you're working with.

38:34 - 38:56
Aaron Craddock: Mhmm. So so I think in terms of data, I'm very much a data guy being in, you know, the primarily the marketing vendor space. So, like, what kind of pickup? Like, just that management touch point or just some touch point that Friday before, like, does that increase show rate 5%, 2%, 10%, like, again, just ballpark?

38:57 - 39:12
Brad Hackett: Across all of our efforts, so we've done some clarity on the recruiting messaging and, making sure we've got conciseness there along with our management welcome call that I had mentioned before. We've seen a 15% increase in our show rate with those measures that we put in place.

39:13 - 39:32
Aaron Craddock: Yeah. And see that that's amazing. Like, because it's just something so simple. And so you think, like, let's say your fleet spending a 100,000 a month or 200,000 a month, you know, that's, you know, 15 to 30,000, like, in marketing efficiencies. Like, for instance, if you just took that, that could go straight to the bottom line.

39:33 - 39:47
Aaron Craddock: And then also just it's also a benefit to, yeah, just the driver. That's just that personal touch, relational touch. So I would think it even has a retention impact too. So it's maybe even greater than that 15%.

39:47 - 40:17
Brad Hackett: Absolutely. I believe that a 100%. And last thing on that is our default mode for a lot of people in this space, myself, certainly included is we're a 100 miles an hour after a problem that's in front of us. We we go, we get crap done. But in those driver interactions, especially at those pivotal conversations, it's super important to really slow down, do your couple minutes of research on that driver so you can have a a good two way conversation, and you're not just checking a box.

40:18 - 40:31
Aaron Craddock: Yeah. That's a that's a good point. Yeah. Sometimes I, you know, with the aim of getting stuff done and and short with the team or even in personal relationships, like, try to move too quickly. Yeah.

40:31 - 41:00
Aaron Craddock: It just when you're having that personal conversation and touch point, like, just the importance of slowing down, like, breathing. Sometimes I even have to, like, walk around, like, reset, like, if I know I'm in, like, the get stuff done mode, to put that other hat on. And and so the last question to kinda to kinda wrap it up, what have you read that has been a really influential book, whether it's around mindset in the recruiting process or or just anything that's really, you know, impacted your life both personally and professionally?

41:01 - 41:29
Brad Hackett: The one that sticks out, Aaron, for me, it was a couple years ago. It's one of those books that I feel like I've come back to yearly is, Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink. Just having that mindset of no excuses, own what's in front of you, and completely own your team, your processes, and the things that you can control. There's so much power to that, and I found so much success in that mindset shift and that that frame. So that's that's my pick there.

41:29 - 41:30
Brad Hackett: How about you?

41:30 - 41:44
Aaron Craddock: Yeah. I absolutely love that book. Most recently, just because of the the stage of growth we're in in the business is 10 x is easier than 2 x. Okay. And, it's by, Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy.

41:44 - 42:21
Aaron Craddock: They're the authors also of Who Not How and The Gap and the Gain, which are also 2 incredible books. And, yeah, just, you know, similar to the extreme ownership concept, just, you know, there there's the aspect of you own it. Like, how do I get to 10 x? But then there's also the aspect of, like, creating that vision. Because I'm I'm a big believer of just if you, you know, take the time to slow down and think about that long term vision and and and, you know, with our business, we have a lot of, you know, growth goals ahead of us.

42:21 - 42:43
Aaron Craddock: Like, we've 10x in the last two and a half years, and and we have, you know, our goals to 10x a couple more times and and continue to grow and and add value. And and yeah. So 10 x is easier than 2 x. And then, honestly, I'd read the whole trilogy. I would start with, like, who not how, gap in the gain, and then, 10 x, see it in 2 x.

42:43 - 43:34
Aaron Craddock: Like, the gap in the gain specifically is about so often we get caught up in, you know, where am I falling short now, like, the gap rather than, you know, where am I now, like, relative to where was I a year ago? And then just, you know, especially, you know, amongst high achievers, Like, we can be kinda have a lot of negative self talk, around, well, I'm still not doing this perfect. And and kinda like you mentioned earlier in the conversation, just, you know, you're never gonna be perfect, like, with, you know, getting people to show up for orientation or, you know, you might have that one recruiting class that you typically get 20 to 40 and you get 5. Right. And, you know, it's just and and you you just have to keep put putting in the reps and extreme ownership, like you said, looking at the data.

43:34 - 43:46
Aaron Craddock: Yeah. I love I love love that book as well. Yeah. So I I really appreciate your time today, Brad. I enjoy our conversations as always, and I think we added added a lot of value to the community.

43:46 - 43:55
Aaron Craddock: And so I really, really appreciate you taking this time. And yeah. So this is, Aaron Craddock with the Hire Truckers podcast, and we appreciate you joining today. Thanks.

43:55 - 43:56
Brad Hackett: Thanks for having me.

43:56 - 44:08
Aaron Craddock: Thank you for joining us today. Our goal with the Hire Truckers podcast is to provide industry insights, marketing trends, and motivation to level up your recruiting game. If we added value, take a few seconds to share this with your network. Have a great week.