Hire Truckers Podcast

00:00 - 00:22
Aaron Craddock: Welcome to the Hire Truckers podcast where we interview experts in driver recruiting. We provide industry insights, marketing trends, and motivation to help you level up your recruiting game. Welcome to the Hire Truckers podcast. I'm your host, Aaron Kradoch, and super excited to have Caleb g on today. And we actually met a few weeks ago just chatting through the recruiting landscape.

00:22 - 00:34
Aaron Craddock: And then I hit him up, and I was like, hey, man. Would you like to come on the podcast? And so super excited to have Caleb here. Who is Caleb? So, Caleb is the senior driver hiring manager at Nussbaum.

00:34 - 00:35
Aaron Craddock: So welcome to the show today, Caleb.

00:35 - 00:37
Caleb Gee: Hey. Thanks for having me.

00:38 - 01:08
Aaron Craddock: And then Caleb also, just fun fact, he's a father of seven, and we're gonna dive into that a little bit more. Homeschooling family, strong faith background, and our focus today is on growth mindset and then practical insights around recruiting. So those are kind of the two pillars we're going to hit today. We're going to spend the first half of the conversation talking about growth mindset, different things that are kind of unique to Caleb and the way he leads at work and in his family. And then kind of the last half, we want you to stick around for that.

01:09 - 01:40
Aaron Craddock: We're gonna go through just different industry insights, like what's different right now with regional, local, OTR, things like that. So make sure you hang around to the end of the show. So starting out, Caleb, like, think in the intro, everybody kind of gravitated towards like, what, seven kids? So you've got seven kids and then lead at work as well. How has your patience leveled up over time or been tested as you've added more kids and more responsibility over the years?

01:41 - 02:03
Caleb Gee: Sure. Sure. Yeah. I think it's definitely something that has improved just especially at home. And it's one of those things, I think you and I talked about it before, that anything that's important, you can't decide like the next day, hey, I'm gonna like, great, tomorrow, I'm gonna be patient for forever till the end of time.

02:03 - 02:27
Caleb Gee: And so I do. I think it's something where I'm way more patient than I was five years ago and certainly ten years ago. And a lot of it is just putting I think with patients, it's priorities. Oftentimes when we're short with someone or with some event, it's because maybe the priorities are not in the right order. You know, they say don't cry over a glass of spilled milk.

02:27 - 02:30
Caleb Gee: Well, what if it's the twelfth glass of spilled milk in the day? Right?

02:30 - 02:31
Aaron Craddock: Like, is

02:31 - 02:52
Caleb Gee: it is it okay to cry then? But still remembering that, hey, there's a little human on the other side of that glass of spilled milk that needs your patience and needs your love. And, yeah, trying to just breathe through that and clean it up or or whatever it is. And remember the keeping the keeping the main thing the main thing.

02:54 - 03:09
Aaron Craddock: Yeah. So I you know, we just added our third. That's three months old now, so not not quite seven. But yeah. But every time I feel like like God's just given me, like, a new level of, like, patience that I didn't have before.

03:09 - 03:38
Aaron Craddock: It's like new level unlocked when new child arrives. And so what I've had because Lauren has been, you know, feeding the new baby most of the time, and so I've had the two younger ones, like, during the night if anything happens. And so our two year old has been waking up in the middle of the night and usually about 01:00, 02:00, just crying like, water, food, whatever. Like, he'll walk around the house and be like, eat. I mean, the other night, he like walked in at like two in the morning and like poked me.

03:38 - 04:04
Aaron Craddock: I was like, eat. And so I go get him back in bed. And I've had a good mentality because I've had some mentors of mine say, like, Hey, enjoy these moments. Like, they're super short that they're this age and you're going blink and it's going be gone. And so usually the first time he comes in there and says something like or wakes up and I hear him on the baby the the baby monitor.

04:04 - 04:24
Aaron Craddock: Like, I'm like, oh, this is such a gift. I get to, you know, see him in the middle of the night, and he's so cute. And I get to put the blanket back on him, and he's like, dada, blanket, water, wah wah. And then even the second time, a lot of times I'll have that mentality. But, man, like, something like the third time or fourth time, and I'm, like, so exhausted.

04:25 - 04:36
Aaron Craddock: I'm like, dude, no. You can't eat at three in the morning. And there are two times recently I conceded, and I was like, yes. You can have a granola bar at 04:00. This is the sixth time you've gotten up.

04:36 - 04:39
Aaron Craddock: And I'm like, I may be creating a habit where he's gonna eat in the middle of the night. But And

04:39 - 04:40
Caleb Gee: I need you to sleep. Yeah.

04:42 - 04:57
Aaron Craddock: And so, yeah, it's a journey and for me as well. So so one of the things we talked about is three of your kids are adopted. And so I'm just a little curious, and we haven't even talked about this in our previous conversations too. So this will be

04:57 - 04:59
Caleb Gee: the first time live on the call. But

04:59 - 05:08
Aaron Craddock: what yeah. What sparked that decision to adopt, and how has that shaped the way you lead both at home and in the workplace?

05:09 - 05:17
Caleb Gee: Yeah. Yeah. No. And it's a great question. So my wife and I had considered adopting before we even had any kids.

05:17 - 05:36
Caleb Gee: I mean, it it had been a discussion. And after our first, we actually had a stillborn. Very, very late term stillborn. And that kind of kick started the the conversation again for whatever reason. Just, hey.

05:36 - 05:55
Caleb Gee: We thought this is something we should do. And yeah. So we we jumped in to the foster care system, and all three of our kids have been adopted through foster care. And two are two are biological siblings. The other one is is not related to to the other two.

05:56 - 06:12
Caleb Gee: And so very different cases, but the that's been a that has been a shaping journey in and of itself. Yeah. And and in a good way too. And also definitely refining us and as far as the patience goes.

06:12 - 06:20
Aaron Craddock: Wow. Yeah. There was a lot there. Like, so first of all, just I'm sorry, like, for for you and your wife. I can't imagine having to go through that.

06:20 - 06:33
Aaron Craddock: Like, we've had some friends and and, like, really close friends and have gone through that. But having not gone through that personally, you know, I can't can't fully understand, but I yeah. I'm just sorry. I know that that had to be hard.

06:33 - 06:47
Caleb Gee: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. It's something that that was, oh, ten years ago, actually almost to the day. And, it's something still affects things today, and our our kids know about it.

06:47 - 06:59
Caleb Gee: And but, yeah, like you said, it's one of those things we had had some friends, similar sit situations, and and it's like, ah, okay. You know, that's sad. That's that's terrible. That's not gonna happen to us, though. Right?

06:59 - 07:43
Caleb Gee: And and then it did. And, yeah, that's definitely been a just a journey in our marriage as well because I think women and men process those things drastically different and understandably so, right? Here you have a baby that was literally grew inside your wife's body and then dies. So yeah, working through that over the years and obviously in in the moment when it happens and once you realize, oh, this is happening, but it's been, there's been a lot of fruit from it. And honestly, when it gets brought up, right, like it's not something you run around and and tell everybody, But when it does happen, it's shocking to know how many other people have had similar experiences.

07:43 - 07:58
Caleb Gee: And it's something in our culture. Yeah. It just doesn't really get talked about or it just kinda, okay, move on. And, yeah, it hurts. But, yeah, it's a it's a interesting conversation just around that whole that whole topic.

07:59 - 08:35
Aaron Craddock: Mhmm. Well, I hope what comes out of this show is that somebody's listening that is kinda going through something similar and just needs to talk about it and maybe reaches out to you. Yeah. And so maybe you're able to help you and or your wife are able to help somebody else because that's in my experience too with the different hard things Lauren and I've been through is like, our hardest times end up being, like, the ways that we can best impact other people. Because when you actually speak it and share it, like you're saying my experience, like, in completely different categories, I've had people coming to me and be like, hey, like, I've been through that too.

08:35 - 08:58
Aaron Craddock: And just because, again, in our culture, I think people hold things so close to the vest. And but but once you kinda put it out there and you're able to help people, that's the cool part that can come from it. So how else how else is that I'm just curious, like, shaped, like, that hard moment ten years ago. So that that actually catalyst that was the catalyst for getting into doing foster care stuff?

08:58 - 09:00
Caleb Gee: Yeah. Yeah. I would say so.

09:00 - 09:03
Aaron Craddock: And so you've been able to impact how many kids have you fostered?

09:03 - 09:25
Caleb Gee: We actually so we are rare, and you'll find anybody that's done foster care, I think it's a different journey for for everybody. I mean, we we know people that have fostered 28 kids and and adopted none. We have fostered three and adopted three. I guess you could say four for a very brief couple weeks. We did have our two oldest adopted.

09:25 - 09:54
Caleb Gee: We had their biological brother for a short period of time. But, yeah, ours was a very yeah. To make a long long story short, the the first case with the the two oldest, they actually have four older siblings, have multiple others now. And so, yeah, that was a three year process between foster and adoption and kinda walking away from that case. And then our son, our youngest adopted, that was night and day difference.

09:54 - 10:12
Caleb Gee: Very unfortunate circumstances, but mom and dad both kinda signed their rights away and, okay. Hey. He's you can adopt him if you want. So, yeah, it's been good though just from our family standpoint of right? Like when people ask, we tell them, yeah, with this many adoptive, this many biological.

10:12 - 10:44
Caleb Gee: But having a different conversation now that they're getting older because we don't want I was talking to somebody the other day. We failed if they grow up and have felt any different than if they were just one of our biological children. So they know, right, like, you've got a there were you had a different tummy mommy and and tummy daddy, whatever we call them. But, like, they should feel just as loved as any of our biological children. And and our biological children know, like, no.

10:44 - 10:51
Caleb Gee: These are your siblings. We're their parents. Yeah. So it's been it's just been good for everybody, including us.

10:51 - 11:05
Aaron Craddock: Yeah. And so you you have just a whole whole crew at your house. Right? Seven kids and your wife. So how do you I would imagine the kids have to help with different things because your wife and you can't do it all.

11:05 - 11:13
Aaron Craddock: So, like, how how have you built, like, a mindset of serving just into your family that's age appropriate?

11:13 - 11:32
Caleb Gee: Yeah. Yeah. My wife and I were literally talking about this about thirty minutes ago. And because, right, some days look much better than others. And it's also I don't know that we always wanna admit it, but we've grown just as much as as hopefully they have in the as far as the aspect of serving.

11:32 - 11:56
Caleb Gee: But, yeah, how do you, human beings are very selfish, right? We want what we want, we want it now. And so with your children, how do you set that first as an adult, hey, I'm going to serve you, right? And that that really that's the entire concept of kids is here you here you have these beans that can't support themselves. Very early on, they can't feed themselves.

11:56 - 12:21
Caleb Gee: They can't wipe their you know, they can't they can't change their own diaper. By nature, you have to serve them. And I think that's the way God intended it because it it helps us grow too. But then with the kids, we had had some friends that they have some older kids that they kinda gave us some advice and and mentored us a little bit on. Yeah, just that team mentality of, hey, it's not about me, it's not about you, it's about us.

12:22 - 12:53
Caleb Gee: And now what role do you play in that? And ultimately, when they, you know, they grow up and they they start their own families or or out in the world, that's this you know, no matter what team you're a part of, that's gotta be the mentality. And I probably couldn't have told you that five years ago or ten years ago. Right? Like, maybe I could have said it and not really understood it, but I think that's the piece as they've gotten older where I can actually see it play out now on how important this is, even just in my own life.

12:53 - 13:12
Caleb Gee: Right? You you you put that in the workplace, you put that in any other circumstance you're in. Getting over yourself and finding out, okay, what role can I play in serving other people or helping other people? And it's interesting too because you watch your kids. You had mentioned at the beginning here that we're both believers.

13:13 - 13:28
Caleb Gee: There's things your kids do that just make you absolutely shake your head and you're like, what were they thinking? But you get this picture of, man, like I did that last week. Like what was God think? Like he's probably looking at me thinking the same thing. What were you thinking?

13:29 - 13:39
Caleb Gee: And so, yeah, some days it's much better than others. I I come home yesterday. We actually live on a kind of a hobby farm, so there's chores to do and chickens and

13:39 - 13:40
Aaron Craddock: all Oh, so cool.

13:40 - 13:52
Caleb Gee: Yeah. Yeah. So I come home yesterday, and they all were doing different things. And and from what it sounded like, the whole day went really well. Other days I come home, though, yeah, it it it's World War II, and you're like, what happened?

13:52 - 13:59
Caleb Gee: So it's always coming back to the let's readjust and and figure out how to serve and and do it as a team.

14:01 - 14:02
Aaron Craddock: That's awesome.

14:04 - 14:05
Caleb Gee: And I The Oops. Sorry.

14:05 - 14:06
Aaron Craddock: Yeah. Go ahead.

14:06 - 14:18
Caleb Gee: No. I I just was gonna say too, a lot of that is right? Like, I think you had mentioned at the beginning that that we homeschool. My wife is like a superwoman. Right?

14:19 - 14:52
Caleb Gee: She's at home during the day while I'm gone, these seven kids. And so a lot of this is is attributed to her. Right? Like, can set the tone when I'm home or, hey, yes, we're on the same page on the direction we're headed, but she's she has to handle the nuts and bolts of that during the day as well. And so, yeah, she does a tremendous job of, yeah, not losing her mind and also trying to set the tone for them because, right, you can't you can't parent with the, do what I say, but not what I do mentality.

14:52 - 14:55
Caleb Gee: It's gotta be by example. So definitely.

14:55 - 15:28
Aaron Craddock: The, I have so many more questions I wanna dive into on the growth mindset piece, but we're already out of time on that. So we're gonna move we're gonna move into industry insights. And so, specifically, what makes a great team culture? And and this was one of the questions I was most excited to ask just knowing Nussbaum and the reputation you guys have as a company for a good culture, just amongst drivers and and just people in the industry. And so you've worked at at a carrier known for that culture and and work there now.

15:28 - 15:38
Aaron Craddock: So from your perspective, what separates the fleets that drivers stay with, and employees stay with from the ones that the cultures that that they leave?

15:38 - 15:50
Caleb Gee: Yeah. Yeah. And I think this perfectly ties into what we were just talking about. So, yeah, Nussbaum's employee owned. They weren't before 02/2018, I think is when it switched.

15:50 - 16:32
Caleb Gee: The culture was still great then, but then kind of enhanced, you know, even more when when we switched to employee owned. And it comes back to exactly what you just talked about or what we just talked about is coming into the company, and we specifically look for this when we're hiring, is coming into the company on, okay, how can I serve and be a part of the team versus, hey, what can I get from this? And so you really have to walk that out, especially on the hiring side when you're talking to somebody, right? Like famous first question for every driver, you know, what's your what's your CPM? One, why do you care?

16:32 - 16:46
Caleb Gee: Right? Like, I can't if I run you 200 miles a week, who cares if I could pay you $2 a mile? Still not making any money. But two, okay, let's unpack that and why are you like, are you are you not getting paid where you're at now? What what do you bring to the table?

16:46 - 17:18
Caleb Gee: So versus the other side of that of we literally had a guy one time say he was the he was the golden egg that the golden goose laid and we needed him. Right? And it's like that, like, if that's the mentality you're coming in here with, that's not gonna go well for him or for the entire team. And so obviously, there's financial, you know, incentives for for being employee owned. Hey, all your actions during the day and everybody else that you work with is is gonna increase the share price and and help you financially as well.

17:18 - 18:03
Caleb Gee: But it's also knowing that, okay, if I need help or someone else needs help, there's five or six other people that are willing to jump in and help me. And honestly, personally, this is something that, like, I hate to admit this, but honestly, just in the last couple years has been something that has really resonated with me. Not just resonated, but starting to actually see it. You live that for long enough, you can start to see, okay, this is why that's important versus if everybody comes in and it's all about them, whether it's whether it's an executive, whether it's a driver, whether it's a recruiter, whether it's a driver manager, it's gonna be chaos. And I think you see that across the industry.

18:03 - 18:12
Caleb Gee: Right? You see tons of of job hopping, you see turnover super high. Yeah. It's it's madness when you don't take that approach to it.

18:12 - 18:17
Aaron Craddock: So, yeah, I I like the point around just servant leadership.

18:17 - 18:17
Caleb Gee: I

18:19 - 19:15
Aaron Craddock: early in my career, I focused on like, I had a a level of that, but there was also just a level of, like, I just want us to crush the numbers. And and we did and we did really well, like, with the teams that I led early in my career. And but yeah. But I missed I missed some things along the way of of just focusing on people and listening well and and serving. Like, I it's almost like I thought I was serving, but I wasn't really wasn't really serving as much as I think I think I think I think the distinction was, now that as I'm wrestling through right now, is I was focused more on the numbers and performance and the perception of outsiders on my career and projection and then, like, trajectory than the people.

19:15 - 19:44
Aaron Craddock: Like so it's not I don't think it's a black and white thing because I did, you know, build a culture that, like, can help people get where they wanted to go and and had, you know, really high employee retention and things like that. But yeah. But there's just there's a level of it now that, like, when I look back on it, like, I I didn't completely put put others others first. So Yeah. It's kinda new kinda nuanced.

19:44 - 19:57
Caleb Gee: Yeah. No. I think it is. And I think it's something that if anybody says they always have, they're, you know, they're lying. But you can tell too, it's like there's also a difference in right?

19:57 - 20:07
Caleb Gee: What did Jesus call the pharisees? You know, you whitewash tombs. You can have this it it's good. Right? It's good to be goal oriented.

20:07 - 20:37
Caleb Gee: But hey, how do we all do this together versus I'm gonna run off on my own and do this or whip everybody else to make this happen. And then I can put on this facade of, oh, I'm I you know, I say the right things and do the right things, and anybody can do that. And I think you see that a lot in our culture. But right inside of the cup versus washing the outside, where does the authenticity come from? And I think you can you can determine the authenticity when times get bad.

20:37 - 21:02
Caleb Gee: If things are going great, well well, yeah, okay, it's it's great for everybody to to pretend to be nice or or whatever or or be a servant, but you can really tell if it's authentic in the times when things aren't going well. And Mhmm. Speaking for myself here, yeah, just at home and and at work and everywhere. Yeah. When those tough times come, you really find out what's on the inside of the cup.

21:02 - 21:27
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21:27 - 22:14
Aaron Craddock: Visit truckingclicks.com or call (512) 982-0816 today. So thinking back to one of the things you said earlier, I'm going back into the personal development side of growth mindset. But one of the questions you said earlier or one of the things you stated was something around, like, once you have a ton of kids, you realize the way God looks at you as the father. And so for me specifically, that contrast has been huge. Just like that I don't care when my kids do something wrong because I think through a lot of my faith journey, I've been so focused on, yeah, doing the right things and like getting an A in my Christianity, right?

22:14 - 22:52
Aaron Craddock: Like in terms of like almost like from a pharisaical perspective, like, they're just they're just wanting to measure up. But then seeing the picture so clearly with my kids when they fall short, how much I have complete grace, and then realizing like that. And it's like even though I know that it's only through grace that I'm saved like through faith, I don't think I really saw the picture of that and was still trying to earn it until I had kids. And then again, it's still a work in progress, but just yeah. That picture is so clear and just from God being like our heavenly father.

22:52 - 23:17
Aaron Craddock: So anyway, as you as you mentioned the faith thing, and it just took me back there to earlier in the conversation with kids painting such a good picture of that. That's just been constructive in my journey, like, just taking things almost less seriously. Like, I don't have to be perfect today where so much of my life is type a hard charging. I'm like, I wanna do business perfectly. I wanna do family perfectly.

23:17 - 23:28
Aaron Craddock: I wanna do this podcast perfectly. I would just be like, no. Just show up and there's grace. So I think that I think that's evident throughout everything I do. Yeah.

23:28 - 23:36
Caleb Gee: Yeah. Yeah. No. I think you're absolutely right. I think the family unit is a great picture of many, many, many biblical truths.

23:36 - 24:07
Caleb Gee: And I think there's a reason that that that family picture is being destroyed just in our culture. And I was talking I was actually talking to a gentleman this morning where just again, back to that, like, selfish mentality and and tying that in with some of the things you're talking about is that you've got this you have pride. Right? You've got self deprecating. And both of those things are selfish.

24:08 - 24:26
Caleb Gee: Like, if you're being Mhmm. Prideful and boastful, well, it's about you. If you're being, oh, woe is me and or I'm terrible and all these other things, it's about you. Whereas if you make it about God, well, then the victories are all his. And when you fall short, it's still all his too.

24:26 - 24:38
Caleb Gee: And that right? Like, that's not an excuse to just do whatever you want. But, no, if if you're living for him and it's about him, then then there's somewhere in the middle there of those two extremes where it's not about you.

24:40 - 25:00
Aaron Craddock: Mhmm. Yep. Couldn't agree more. It's good. The and so so one of the things diving back into industry insights that I wanted to make sure we touch on just as our time short is just one of the things that you had noticed.

25:00 - 25:25
Aaron Craddock: And so this is on trainees and local market pressures, and so or new hires and local market pressures. So we're seeing pay and local and regional driving catch up with OTR as some of what we talked about in our pre call. And and that's just kinda changed the the recruiting landscape recently, and home time's a bigger lever than ever. How have those changes impacted your recruiting approach?

25:26 - 25:39
Caleb Gee: Sure. Yeah. It's definitely something I would say we've seen where especially right now, last year and a half, just economically, it's not been great on the trucking side. And so, yeah, you've got these. Right?

25:39 - 26:19
Caleb Gee: Gravel still needs to be hauled. Things locally still need to, you know, concrete trucks still have to move, everything else. So you're seeing this either, you know, pay staying the same or going up in some of these things where, you know, home times daily are are much better than being over the road as compared to, yeah, come drive over the road and and maybe a company's cutting rates because of, you know, economic pressure or whatever else. And, yeah, that's a that's a challenge because right? I think we talked about before a little bit with I think some of the days are gone of, yeah, I have kids, and it's my job to provide for them.

26:19 - 26:37
Caleb Gee: And, they they grow up, and I put clothes on their back and and food in their bellies and and we're good to go. No, now you have a lot of drivers where it's, yeah, I wanna do those things and support my family, but I also wanna see them. So yeah, that's been a challenge for us. We're primarily over the road. We do have a number of dedicated lanes.

26:38 - 27:10
Caleb Gee: And quite honestly, that's the number one reason somebody leaves Newsbound. We get a lot of, hey, I love the company, wish I could stay, but I had this local opportunity that that popped up. And sometimes those work out and great, you know, if they do, other times they don't and a guy might come back. So yeah, it's just again having those conversations with guys beforehand or gals on what are you really after, like when you come here. Because, right, the big ticket things are pay, home time, goodness, just culture in general.

27:10 - 27:16
Caleb Gee: Right? Are you gonna be nice to me or not? And, sometimes you might have somebody. Right? Hey, do you have a

27:16 - 27:21
Aaron Craddock: home daily? No, we don't, I have over the road for you. Okay, well, what do you pay?

27:22 - 27:47
Caleb Gee: And it's like at that point, the conversation's typically over because if I know you're not gonna be happy with with what we have for home time, well, a year from now, you're still not gonna be happy with that. And so even if you're making tons of money, why would I put you in a position where I know you're not gonna be happy versus trying to match it up with somebody that's, oh, yeah, I wanna see the country. This is this is actually what I'm looking for.

27:49 - 28:21
Aaron Craddock: Mhmm. That actually goes directly into our next question is so one of our one of our core values, like at Credit Holdings, Trucking Clicks, our truckers, is radical honesty. And that's one of the things we talked about in our pre call is just so the question is, are carriers getting more honest? And so you've said, like, there's often a gap between what recruiters promise and what drivers actually experience, like, as an industry. And so how do you close that gap and build trust without overpromising?

28:21 - 28:28
Caleb Gee: Yeah. Absolutely. No. And I do. I I think honesty is getting better industry wide.

28:28 - 28:51
Caleb Gee: I think the issue is still omission. Right? Where if a driver doesn't ask, then you don't say anything. And part of that, that's a two pronged problem, is you have the driver not knowing what they should ask and asking the right questions. But then you have a company that's going, here's something that's not great.

28:51 - 29:37
Caleb Gee: I know it's not great, I know other people didn't like it, but they didn't ask, so I'm not gonna tell them. That's a waste of everybody's time. The company's time, the driver's time, everything. And so here, I don't think we've ever, never phrased it as radical honesty, but yeah, that's a perfect way to phrase it is we have a list of dozens of items that whether a driver asks about it or not, you're going to sit and listen to us go through this list so you know every little detail about working here. That's everything from equipment to how the bonus works, to what size dog you can bring, to health insurance, to how many miles you're gonna get a week, how those miles are paid, everything.

29:37 - 30:13
Caleb Gee: That way there is no and then multiple times during that conversation where things are sent to them in writing. So, okay, you've got it in writing. We've literally now gone through it on the phone together. You can ask any question you want and we're gonna get an answer for you because we want to know that it's a good fit for you and it's a good fit for us versus surprise, you got here and for two weeks, you know, two weeks in you realize, oh, this is nothing what what I was told. And even in still doing that, I would say the average conversation with the driver before hiring them is an hour.

30:13 - 30:38
Caleb Gee: And that's after you've done all the, you know, excuse me, basic questions for just getting an app filled out and everything else. Right? So that that phone call, anywhere from forty five minutes to two hours, and you still will get drivers that will come in and go, no, that's not what I was told. I was like, well, here it is in writing. Or yeah, that's exactly what you told me.

30:38 - 31:04
Caleb Gee: I've literally had this happen before where, yeah, that, it's exactly what you told me. I just thought it would be different when I got here. And you're always gonna have that. But at that point, if you know, well, we've done everything we possibly could to mitigate that situation happening versus, hey, I'm only gonna tell you the answers to the three questions you asked and we'll see you when you get here, right? And they show up with a 90 pound Pitbull and it's like, oh, we're going for a ride.

31:04 - 31:14
Caleb Gee: Well, no, not in our truck, right? So yeah, having those conversations and forcing those conversations. So yeah, somebody that calls in and just says, hey. Yeah. I'm ready to start.

31:14 - 31:20
Caleb Gee: When can I come? Woah. Woah. Woah. Let's slow down and and talk about this to make sure it's a good fit for both of us.

31:22 - 31:44
Aaron Craddock: That's so good. And so so the last one last one I have on here that I wanna make sure we cover today is teaching drivers to vet fleets. And I know this is something you're super passionate about. And so one of your biggest passions is educating drivers on how to ask better questions. If a driver has had, like, 30 jobs, where should the accountability really fall?

31:44 - 31:48
Aaron Craddock: Should it fall on the fleet, or should it fall on the driver, or somewhere in between?

31:50 - 31:59
Caleb Gee: Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. And so, actually sitting behind me right now, Joe, we actually have this point, it's it's kind of really a passion project. It's called truck driver's best.

32:00 - 32:23
Caleb Gee: And that's what it's all centered around is driver education for finding a job that you can go to and stay at a long time. So avoiding what we talked about earlier with the, oh yeah, I don't like your home time, well, but what do you pay? Right? You're not gonna be there a year from now because you don't like the home time. So don't ask that follow-up question if the first one's not right.

32:23 - 32:52
Caleb Gee: And so, yeah, to your point, you see these guys or gals that have 30 jobs in the last eight years, that's not company's fault, Right? And and you can look at their application. You see the companies that are on there. You don't have to do this for a long time to know which companies aren't great ones. Even if those are on that list, if you've had 30 jobs, that is not the company's fault at that point.

32:52 - 33:32
Caleb Gee: In the age of the Internet, between review sites, between all the awards out there for, like, best fleets, TCA's elite fleets, all these other places where you can look or even just talking to other drivers, social media, anywhere else, there's no reason you cannot vet a company before you decide to go there. And honestly, the most, gosh, success we've had there or people that have been open to hearing it are those that have just come out of school and are new to the industry. Because a lot of times they don't have a clue, right? Hey, this is great. I'm gonna I'm gonna get my CDL and I'm gonna go make $90 a year.

33:33 - 34:06
Caleb Gee: And, you know, I've gotta chase rainbows and ride a unicorn around and it's gonna be great. And when you tell them, hey, turnover in the industry is in the eighties and nineties, they're like, what? And so just equipping them with, hey, instead of going to four places, now a good company's not gonna wanna look at you because you went four places your first year. Let's figure this out before you go to the first one. And, maybe it's still not a fit, but you can take those same tools to the next one so that way you can find a place that is a good fit in the life circumstances that you have now.

34:07 - 34:10
Aaron Craddock: That's awesome. And so you said it's called truck driver's best?

34:10 - 34:11
Caleb Gee: Yeah. Yep.

34:11 - 34:18
Aaron Craddock: Awesome. So what's your like, as we wrap up here, Caleb, what's your final encouragement to recruiters and fleet leaders?

34:18 - 34:38
Caleb Gee: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just what you said, radical honesty, culture, and also part of that culture piece, right, is how just in recruiting departments and the industry as a whole. Right? If your turnover's 90%, that's a lot of pressure.

34:38 - 35:00
Caleb Gee: Right? At that point in time, you're you're okay just kinda burning and turning through drivers because you have to or your trucks aren't moving. So how do you turn that around? That way the whole culture is people driven versus that dollar driven and and just keeping the wheels turning aspect. And, yeah, again, just serving.

35:00 - 35:26
Caleb Gee: If we can make that, and again, to myself first here, honestly, I'm probably the in our department, I might actually be the worst at this than everybody in it just because of my personality type. And so it's speaking to myself first is, yeah, finding what needs you can fill and then fill it, and whether that's with your coworkers at your house or with other drivers.

35:28 - 35:35
Aaron Craddock: That's so good. And so where where can people connect with you, Caleb, and where can people connect with Nussbaum?

35:35 - 35:41
Caleb Gee: Sure. Definitely. Nussbaum. It's nussbaum dot com. You can find me on LinkedIn if you wanna chat or send me a message.

35:41 - 35:48
Caleb Gee: I don't I'm not I don't live on there, but I can certainly see the messages. And, yeah, happy to talk.

35:50 - 36:10
Aaron Craddock: Awesome. Well, thank you for your time, Caleb. And, just to our audience, the next episode will be a solo episode where I'm touching on some growth mindset stuff, so tune in in a couple weeks. Anyway, Caleb, I really, really, really appreciate your time, and I think we could have gone for three hours, like you said. Just so many cool things to talk about, and I think we added value to the industry today.

36:11 - 36:13
Aaron Craddock: So, again, just thank you for your time, Caleb.

36:13 - 36:14
Caleb Gee: Yeah. Thanks for having me.

36:14 - 36:26
Aaron Craddock: Thank you for joining us today. Our goal with the Hire Truckers podcast is to provide industry insights, marketing trends, and motivation to level up your recruiting game. If we added value, take a few seconds to share this with your network. Have a great week.