Hire Truckers Podcast

00:00 - 00:12
David Withers: So the dream is the freedom, own my own business, got my own truck, flexibility. I can pick my loads. I can do whatever I want to. And then just financial independence. Those are really the dreams.

00:12 - 00:23
David Withers: But quite honestly, the reality is is responsibility. You are 150000% solely responsible for your business and for that truck.

00:39 - 01:01
Ginger Craddock: David, trucking has historically offered drivers something that few industries can, a path from employee to an independent contractor to business owner. In today's freight and operating environment, is truck ownership still a real path to opportunity?

01:03 - 01:15
David Withers: I believe it is. I mean, past different. Twenty, thirty years ago, opportunity was was very real. I mean, still very real. Ownership's changed a lot over time.

01:16 - 01:38
David Withers: And it doesn't always just create success instantly. Owner trucks, probably the easiest part. Operating a profitable business is what's really the key now and what really drives success in ownership. And it's really the difference, I think, in the real path or the path twenty to thirty years ago to what we are currently.

01:40 - 02:07
Ginger Craddock: I I hear you on that. Owning the truck is easier than building the business. As an entrepreneur, in my mind, I have tested my business model. It works well. But the climb is always more challenging and there's more layers to it than I ever anticipate on the front end and so that makes sense in the context of truck drivers who become business owners as well.

02:07 - 02:26
Ginger Craddock: And so you've spent more than thirty years in trucking across recruiting, driver relations, safety, and operations. How has the opportunity for a professional driver to become a business owner changed? What are some of those changes you've seen?

02:27 - 02:56
David Withers: Well, I mean, thirty years ago, I had this year marked my thirtieth year in in the industry. And and, twenty, thirty years ago, people bought trucks because freight was strong. The barrier, entry barrier was low, much lower. And there's less technology, much fewer regulations. And just the cost of owning a truck was a lot less expensive it is currently.

02:57 - 03:28
David Withers: Know, today everything's just more expensive, quite honestly. Fuels higher, truck costs are higher, parts are higher, service is higher. I mean, everything from top to bottom insurance, I mean, all the key indicators of what you need to operate in trucking as an owner operator, they've all gone up. I mean, we've seen everything kind of level up in terms of pricing. But the trucking has has changed exponentially, just in the in the last three to four years.

03:28 - 03:43
David Withers: Mean, we've seen a lot of prices increase and the cost of doing business just costs more. And unfortunately, in some cases, not in all, but some cases, the rates haven't increased. So that's challenging as well for business ownership.

03:43 - 04:04
Ginger Craddock: Absolutely. And so I have a curious question. Do you remember ballpark how much a tractor cost back in the day when you got started in the business thirty years ago versus what an Owner-Operator independent contractor might expect to pay today?

04:05 - 04:34
David Withers: So I can try to hit that because I'll be honest with you. When I got into the industry, I was on the company side more. So I was recruiting company drivers more often. I did kind of move into the Owner-Operator side probably late 90s, early 2000s. I think a truck cost back then was probably $40,000 $50,000 usually for a newer truck.

04:35 - 05:26
David Withers: It might have gotten in, if you stacked up some additional options on the truck and things like it might have gotten close to 60,000 or 70,000 depending on the truck layout, depending on if you wanted a bunch of steel, you know, chrome on it. Could have could have inflated it a little bit more. But but, yeah, I mean, compared to now, I mean, you're talking about we get, you know, we see pricing anywhere from, you know, 195, 200,000 plus just for a pretty basic laid out tractor. And I mean, if you get into the straight truck side, you also, you're gonna bounce up to closer to $300,000 if you're putting custom sleepers on trucks and things of that nature. So it's gone up quite, quite extensively over, past thirty years.

05:27 - 05:55
Ginger Craddock: Absolutely. And and that's a good snapshot just to see that range and then in the context of all the other numbers being inflated over time as well too. So that brings us to thinking about dream versus reality. So what does someone need to understand before making the leap from professional driver to an owner operator or independent contractor?

05:57 - 06:29
David Withers: Well, I mean, you go dream versus reality, and and the dream is you're you're standing out at a at a at a fuel pump and a guy walks up to you with a pretty truck, and you're a company driver and you're sitting there talking to him and he flexes out the the check stubs and shows all the big money he's making. So the dream is the freedom, open roads. I'm I'm own my own business, got my own truck. The flexibility, you know, they don't a lot of company drivers going in owner operator, they think, oh, it's flexible. I can I can pick my loads?

06:29 - 06:49
David Withers: I can do whatever I want to. And then just financial independence. Those are really the dreams. But quite honestly, the reality is responsibility. I mean, you are 150000% solely responsible for your business and for that truck and making it happen.

06:50 - 07:18
David Withers: And when you're a company driver, somebody else takes the worries of those things we just talked about, insurance, maintenance, the equipment costs, truck note, all the things that are the highest cost of fuel. And then a lot of company drivers don't really understand cash flow and that you gotta know what your cash flow looks like. It's not just revenue, it's also profit. I mean, it's just a lot of things that happen in there. Then you got compliance side of it.

07:18 - 07:43
David Withers: Cause you've always got safety no matter where you go, whether you're a company driver or whether you're an owner operator, still have to be compliant and you gotta meet those requirements as well. So, just when you become an owner operator, those responsibilities all become yours. So you are the sole owner. And I always, I mean, I tell people, don't buy a truck because you're tired of working for someone, buy a truck because you're ready to run a business. Simple as that.

07:43 - 07:51
David Withers: There's no other reason to make that jump if you're not ready to run a business because that's what it is.

07:51 - 07:54
Ginger Craddock: So say that again for the people in the back of the room, David.

07:54 - 08:03
David Withers: Yeah. So don't buy a truck because you're tired of running for someone. You're tired of being a company driver. Buy a truck because you're ready to operate and run a business.

08:03 - 08:32
Ginger Craddock: Buy a truck because you're ready to own and operate a business. So that brings us to a great connection here. Not every great driver will be a great business owner. So thinking about what characteristics separate someone who can successfully operate a truck from someone who can successfully operate a trucking business?

08:33 - 09:11
David Withers: Yeah. So, I mean, driving skills and business skills are two separate things. I mean, they're they're not one of the same. You can be a great driver, be safe, millions and millions of miles that should operate it safely. But some of those drivers that are some of the best drivers out there, and there's nothing wrong with this, but when it comes to flipping over to the business side, they just really understand it or they don't have the, not necessarily have the capability of understanding some sometimes they just enjoy driving so much that they don't want to have to worry about all the business aspects.

09:11 - 09:22
David Withers: They just want to get in that truck, and they just want to roll. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. There's places for those type of people. And those are, you know, company trucks.

09:22 - 09:40
David Withers: But if you want to be a successful business owner, you've got to have, you know, some strong financial discipline. And really discipline is the most important thing. You got to have some patience. I mean, there's always it doesn't all happen super fast for you. You don't see the revenue the next day.

09:41 - 09:56
David Withers: It's a patient. It's a long game. You got to be good at decision making. And then just personal accountability. Understand sometimes you make the wrong call, you mess up and don't let it get to you.

09:56 - 10:13
David Withers: Pick yourself up and move on to the next thing. Just but just keep keep being consistent. And that's really the last thing is just be consistent. Consistency is one of the biggest keys in in business ownership, not just trucking business, but just really business ownership.

10:13 - 10:39
Ginger Craddock: Absolutely. And I really appreciate what you said. As a business owner, we are going to hit roadblocks and we will learn from some of the decisions we make, the wins and the ditches or the pain points of decisions that we wish we had made differently. And the resilience, I really appreciate what you've touched on, the resilience to keep going. Going, okay.

10:39 - 10:48
Ginger Craddock: I learned. And so now, okay. Where do I go next? Like that perseverance, that consistency And like you're talking so

10:49 - 11:17
David Withers: And just and just remember one thing. The the truck is only one part of the equation. So everybody builds I think, yeah, I've never owned a truck. It's been in this industry for a long time. My dad was a truck driver, but I really feel like a lot of company drivers or people that's never tried ownership, they just think because it could be even just a contract driver as well that's driving for a fleet owner that maybe wants to own.

11:17 - 11:24
David Withers: So it's not just necessarily company drivers, but they think, I mean, if I get that truck, it's gonna change everything. That's just one piece of the equation.

11:25 - 11:47
Ginger Craddock: And speaking about one piece of the equation, the economics have become more complicated. You've touched on it a little bit with equipment, insurance, maintenance, fuel, and freight market pressure. What numbers should a prospective owner understand before saying yes to a truck?

11:48 - 12:21
David Withers: Well, I mean, there's there's a lot that I can go over here, but the the one probably most important is what does it cost me to operate? I mean, that's that's really that is the key to everything is cost of operation. So you need to know how much it costs you to operate per mile. And I see, unfortunately, at times folks that get in a truck, become owners, or they're in that path to ownership, they just don't, you can ask them, what's the cost and what's your cost per mile? And they can't tell you.

12:22 - 12:50
David Withers: So we have to, you know, have to walk them through that and try to help coach them to understand that that's really one of the most important piece. But you know, fixed costs, I mean, your truck payment, your insurance, your registration permits, communication system, just all the things. And it depends on what you're doing. If you're trying to run your own authority and run off load boards and things of that nature, those are all things you're gonna have to accumulate your own. Sometimes you can lease to a motor carrier.

12:50 - 13:33
David Withers: Motor carrier is gonna be able to provide some of those things for you, like communication devices and ELDs. They can provide those to you. But if you're just running out there on your own authority, getting it, I mean, 100, I mean, that's really what I call the 100% owner operator is the one that's just doing it all themselves and doesn't really have a strong motor carrier base, but they're just running low boards or running various things they can just find to keep them moving and get them revenue. But you've got those fixed costs, you got fuel, maintenance, tires, your repairs, just those are all just your variable costs. And then you gotta have cash reserves as well.

13:33 - 14:07
David Withers: I mean, one mistake that people make is buying a truck with no emergency fund. I mean, tell people I used to tell people a lot when I was recruiting for our opportunity here. But I would tell them, look, if you don't have some funds set aside in an account somewhere, this probably isn't the best time to make this move. You need to have some money built up. So if you're running consistently wherever you're at, now, everybody's not in that situation.

14:07 - 14:43
David Withers: And sometimes you still get folks that they might tell you they are and they get in and they're not. But that's one key factor is you need to have an emergency fund because every truck's gonna need repairs. Questions not if, but when. So just make sure that you've got the funds there and not just once you get into the truck and you start earning that revenue and generating revenue and you're profiting, make sure you're setting some of that stuff aside for those rainy days. If you don't have a rainy day account, then you're just you're fuel you're fooling yourself.

14:43 - 14:46
David Withers: Not fueling yourself, but fooling yourself. And

14:46 - 15:54
Ginger Craddock: so those are some key numbers and and just an important saving strategy to have as a part of the plan. As a business owner, I know how and as an entrepreneur, I know how important my community is to my success. And you touched on there are some owner operators out there, many of them, who are going it on their own and building their business on their own and and you know maybe they've had mentors or people in the business. I'd like for you to take a moment and unpack a little bit part of why I'm so passionate about what Expeditor Services is doing is because of that extra community, that extra guidance, that extra support that you actually offer to business owners, to independent contractors. So what are some of those things that you guys offer at Expeditor Services when you guys contract with drivers?

15:55 - 16:26
David Withers: Yeah, Ginger. So we've got quite a few opportunities that we have throughout our organization. One of the main ones that many of the folks that come in and touch us start out on is our Pack to Ownership Program, which is just basically we provide a rental truck to them, a piece of equipment, good tractor or a straight truck. So we've got a couple different opportunities, but we provide them a good piece of equipment. We maintain that equipment.

16:26 - 16:51
David Withers: We provide it through a rental program. They earn a percentage and they work their way as the PAT, the PTO states for or stands for, through a PAT to Ownership. So if they don't own a truck yet, but that's their desire, they can come in through our PTO program. They can drive that truck just like they own it. We're gonna monitor them, look at the numbers every month, walk them through them with them.

16:52 - 17:36
David Withers: And then we're gonna, you know, at some point through time, it could be five months, six months, ten months, a year, two years, three years. Really, it just depends on how they work through the program and how the revenue looks, how their attitude, their aptitude, their work ethic, work history, those are the metrics we work off of. And then also if they feel ready, if they don't feel ready to move and to proceed into ownership at that point where we finance them into a truck, then we're not gonna move them forwards. We want them to be as comfortable as we are on our side of getting to know them. We're quite a bit just pretty much a relationship type of company.

17:36 - 17:51
David Withers: So we build a relationship with with these folks, and we get to know them. They get to know us. It gives them a good opportunity to get a taste of ownership and and just really try the program out. So we've got that opportunity. We've also got some direct financing that we can do.

17:51 - 18:42
David Withers: We've also got a truck sales department that we have trucks that we retire out of our fleet. We sell those out to the open market. So that could be a cash sale, it could be a finance sale, it could be their own finance that they obtain purchase a truck. Then we've also got another division in our company that's our ES Advantages side, which is selling our giving our fuel card out to the general market of trucking. So folks that aren't necessarily in our branded fleet, they can actually if they've got multiple trucks, single truck, they can have the power of our community, which is really where the power is, is all these trucks together working together and we it helps us as a company leverage the cost.

18:42 - 19:39
David Withers: So you if you're an owner and you have your own truck or if you decide to get into our Path to Ownership Program, it helps you have pricing on fuel, tires, maintenance, parts, insurance, the whole gamut of all the fixed costs, variable costs, it's gonna leverage those almost like you're a part of a gigantic motor carrier, just because of the community that we have with all the trucks that we have. And we service over like 18,000 trucks, so plus, in between our external market and our internal branded fleet. So that's pretty much. And then we've got a whole operations department. I've always said, ever since I've worked here, when I recruit, I've told folks when I was doing recruiting primarily, I would tell them that we look like a trucking company, we sound like a trucking company, we smell like a trucking company, But we're not a trucking company.

19:39 - 19:59
David Withers: We're not a motor carrier. We don't buy freight, sell freight, house freight. We're not a warehouse. We are just simply an equipment provider, finance provider to the trucking industry, we help grow capacity in the market with motor carriers. So hopefully that gives you a good roundhouse gamut of what

19:59 - 20:38
Ginger Craddock: we do. It does. It does and it touches on something that number one is really close to my heart that I mentioned entrepreneurship and learning how to be a successful business owner. But also what I've heard when I've been at a recent Texas Trucking Association event also I've been at several truckload carriers events and the conversation among fleet executives and in motor carriers is we're talking about retention. Well, drivers are saying, hey.

20:38 - 21:15
Ginger Craddock: I would like a career path. And so that's what I appreciate. You guys offer some tools for the driver to actually career path into business ownership if they want to And do not just business ownership of one truck, but what about the the ones who wanna grow and and maybe have multiple trucks? And and, you know, trucking started that way with husbands, wives Yep. Cousins, brothers, and that's still happening today.

21:15 - 21:43
Ginger Craddock: And America is the greatest place to live if you want opportunity and you're willing to work, and that that still exists today. So if you're hearing a lot of noise, turn it off and just remember, hey, look at these opportunities we still have and and particularly in trucking. Hiring CDL drivers isn't about more leads. It's about better ones. That's why serious carriers partner with Hire Truckers by Trucking Clicks.

21:43 - 21:57
Ginger Craddock: We don't sell ads. We bring clear strategy, straight talk, and a relentless focus on quality drivers. Even in a tough market, our in We

22:05 - 22:05
David Withers: leader

22:09 - 22:34
Ginger Craddock: or call (512) 982-0816. Hire Truckers by Trucking Clicks. Clarity, Courage, Results. So that brings us to what I like to call the right fit opportunity. So not every opportunity is the right fit for every driver.

22:34 - 22:57
Ginger Craddock: Not every motor carrier is the right fit for every driver. Like, it goes both ways. And so how should a driver evaluate whether a particular carrier, a particular lease opportunity, or an operating model actually fits the business and the life that they're trying to build?

22:58 - 23:18
David Withers: Yeah. So, I mean, every every driver operator, I mean, they they should ask some some themselves some questions when they're looking at opportunity. Does it meet my financial goals? Does it align with what my financial goals are? So is the right, what it comes down to is the rate or the percentage the right amount.

23:18 - 23:37
David Withers: So that's one piece of it with the carrier. And I don't really talk a lot of I'm not as adept on the if you've got your own authority, run a load boards. I just don't know that side enough. I've been on it, just being candid, I haven't been on it enough in my career. But I know enough to be dangerous.

23:37 - 24:13
David Withers: But this is more really if you're trying to pick a motor carrier, trying to align yourself with a motor carrier as an owner operator. Does it fit your desired lifestyle? I know that the world we live in is changing. And I know motor carriers have had to change and shift how they operate and how their freight lanes run and trying to build more dedicated lanes because a lot of people desire more home time or closer. If you're going to run a business as an owner operator, unless you get into just a really niche field, I mean, you're gonna you're gonna have to understand that it's gonna take being out on the road.

24:13 - 24:35
David Withers: I mean, it's a road job for the most part in career. So I mean, you've got to look at and see if they provide consistent freight, whatever opportunity you're looking at. And is the compensation model what you're looking for? Do I understand the deductions and expenses as well? So ask all the questions.

24:35 - 25:19
David Withers: It blows my mind a lot. And I know that a lot of drivers that get opportunities coming from all different directions, and they probably talked to nine motor carriers in the last twenty four hours, and things blend together. But once you make the decision that, hey, this is where I'm gonna go, this is what I'm gonna do, this is who I'm gonna lease on with, learn everything you can about that motor carrier and about that opportunity. Don't just wing it. Because if you just try to wing it, it's gonna it's gonna be expensive, and it's most likely you're gonna have some windfalls that's gonna, you know, cause you to either drop out and find something else, or it's gonna at least set you back a little bit.

25:19 - 25:35
David Withers: So just make sure when you make that decision and, hey, this is the carrier I wanna be with, ask all the questions and make sure you understand. And if they're not willing to answer those questions, then that might not be the right opportunity. It might be better just to look for another motor carrier at that point.

25:36 - 26:31
Ginger Craddock: And I think of motor carriers kind of with the lens of a family. All families can have their own look from the outside looking in but only when you're inside the family do you really know what the family and the culture are like. You know you can glean some of that and so I really appreciate what you said about once you make your decision learn all you can about that model and it's going to have trade offs because that's called life on this side of heaven and eternity is it's got the both sides of the coin. And so I really appreciate that focus of really connecting. So that brings us to the lens of support versus independence.

26:32 - 26:53
Ginger Craddock: Independent contractors and you touched on it a little bit at the beginning but let's unpack it a little bit more. Independent contractors want control over their business, but they also need infrastructure. What should they expect from the companies that they choose to work with, and what must they own themselves?

26:54 - 27:09
David Withers: Yeah. So, I mean, a quality partner partnership or partner should be I mean, you should look at freight access. You know, what type of freight are they giving you? So, and that's another thing. Choose the type of freight you like.

27:09 - 27:42
David Withers: So I mean, trucking's not just one, it's not just one flat medium, But you've got truckload, you've got lessened truckload LTL, you've got gosh, I just totally forgot the actual name of it, but running to the ports, I mean you've got that. You've got flatbed. You've got tanker. I mean, there's just all types of different freight that you can choose from. So determine what the freight access is, determine what their compliance guidance is.

27:42 - 28:03
David Withers: I mean, what are they looking for in terms of compliance? Do they match what you need and what you're looking for? Most carriers this day and age, compliance side's pretty standard for the most part just because of FMCSA. And then settlement transparency. I mean, understand the settlement, understand how it works.

28:04 - 28:33
David Withers: We see folks sometimes that come in, we provide them the data that they need in terms of when your freight cutoffs are. And unfortunately, don't read them and then they get confused. Know when a load cuts off for the week and you're gonna get paid. So if it's 11:59 on a Saturday night, make sure you know that, you know, 11:59 is cutting off. So if you've got if you're under a load and it's delivering Sunday, that that load's not paying out.

28:33 - 29:01
David Withers: So you might wanna wait to fuel, you know, sometime in the next day once once the clock turns and shifts so that that fuel is not coming out as well on that load. So it'll carry over to the next load. So understand that. Maintenance resources, operational support, onboarding assistance. I mean, those are all things I know that we do, ES does, and we provide a full back office support to all of our trucks.

29:01 - 29:24
David Withers: So, you know, we're here for them. We try answer any questions they've got. And that's really what you need to do. You need to find somebody that will support you, whether it's you're going to a motor carrier to do it, whether you come to ES and and we help you, but you need a support system because this isn't easy. It's just trucking is not easy, whether you're trying to own your own truck or not.

29:24 - 29:58
David Withers: Trucking is a difficult industry. And and you know, with with it being Driver Appreciation Week nationally, I mean, I can't say it more. And I know it's just words, but the amount of appreciation that I know I have for truck drivers and what they do to continue moving our country forward, I mean, it's just it's phenomenal what they do. They don't get enough credit, I mean, obviously. But I mean, you've got to find somebody that provides the support, provides the you know, what we do is we try to provide a cushion.

29:58 - 30:11
David Withers: So you know you're gonna have some some bumps and some bruises, but are they gonna be real hard, or are they gonna have a cushion on them to where at least it softens the the blow and softens the damage? And that's what we try to do here at ES.

30:12 - 30:23
Ginger Craddock: And you guys do that really well. When we think about recruiting owner operators, you you've done a good job of kinda sharing about the business side and the support there.

30:23 - 30:23
David Withers: Yeah.

30:23 - 30:39
Ginger Craddock: But thinking about fleets out there who are actively recruiting owner operators, where do fleets and recruiters get the message wrong when they're trying to attract independent contractors?

30:39 - 30:39
David Withers: Yeah.

30:40 - 30:50
Ginger Craddock: And are we recruiting them like drivers when we should be talking to them like business owners? So kinda look at it from those lenses.

30:51 - 31:15
David Withers: That's exactly I mean, that that's really the crux of it is is that many companies, they try to recruit owner operators like they try to recruit company drivers. Many of them are recruiting the same. They're recruiting the company and owner operators into the same motor carriers at times. So they're unfortunately trying to fit both into one mold, and they're completely different. I mean, owner operators aren't applying for a job.

31:15 - 31:38
David Withers: They're looking for a career. They're looking for a business partnership that gives them a long term ownership opportunity and career. And they want answers to, how are you going to help me grow my business? I don't want to just know how to start my business, but I want to know once I start that business, how am I going to grow it? How are you guys going to help me grow that?

31:38 - 31:53
David Withers: And what are the key things that I need to do to get to that growth point? So that's one thing. Transparency. I mean, transparency is huge. So just make sure you're transparent with money, settlements.

31:54 - 32:28
David Withers: That's one of the biggest keys because that's really what's most important to most business owners is the finance side. So if you're not transparent with settlements, we try to lay it out there and show them everything they've got, whether it be fees coming out, money coming in and where all that stuff marries up. So you gotta do that. Freight opportunities, gotta know your freight opportunities and then the support systems that are available to you. You know, make sure you're communicating those support systems.

32:28 - 33:23
David Withers: Also, sure if you've got a if you're a motor carrier and you have a, you know, a driver contractor relations, owner operator relations, whatever you may call that, make sure those folks are reaching out to the trucks and touching them and just making sure the health of the truck's good. One thing I love that we've done over the last, I wanna say, it was about four years ago, might be five years ago that we partnered with Corporate Chaplin's of America, CCC. And because we just we saw that mental health is a real thing. And not only is mental health a real thing, but truckers in a truck, if you're solo by yourself with a lot of window time, there's a lot of time for thinking, lot of time for getting frustrated, a lot of time for anger, and you're away from your family. So we knew that there needed to be some support there.

33:23 - 34:09
David Withers: Now on the flip side of that, we have teams that you may have husband and wife teams or brothers, sisters, brothers, brothers, family members, just buddies that are trying to operate and trying to work in a team environment that they may run into things as well, and hindrances that they come up with. So we provided that so you know, I'm not saying that that that's a one all source and it's going to, you know, solve everything but find something out there that a company out there that's providing things like that to your business as an extension. And I mean, you know, it's it's a it's a wonderful thing to have, you know, entities like that and various other systems and support systems available to you.

34:10 - 34:55
Ginger Craddock: Absolutely. And having those additional support systems are key in running one truck but also thinking about growing beyond one truck because what I'm hearing from some of these young professional drivers is they're like I'm enjoying driving but I want a career path And so thinking about going beyond one truck. For someone who is successfully operating one truck, when does adding another truck make sense, and what changes when you go from owning a truck to building a fleet? I didn't I didn't keep the easy questions for you. Like, I'm just going right at it as a vintage owner.

34:55 - 35:00
David Withers: Man, I mean, you just you just you set them up. You stack them up high there.

35:01 - 35:01
Ginger Craddock: That's right.

35:01 - 35:38
David Withers: But I can't expect anything less from you. Mean, you're gonna push us and put us in the elevator. But complexity, I mean, complex to be a multiple truck owner, quite honestly. And when you start trying to grow from one truck to a fleet of trucks, I mean, you're no longer just simply dealing with a truck, buying an asset. So you're dealing with driver management, if you're gonna have a driver and then you can't drive two trucks at one time, if you figure that out, let us know because we wanna, you're gonna be a trillionaire.

35:38 - 36:12
David Withers: But driver management, payroll, so you gotta worry about your settlement side, paying that operator that's in that truck and making sure that it's timely. If you like to get paid, that driver or that truck likes to get paid too. So unfortunately there's times where you see fleet owners get their back against the wall and the last thing they wanna do is think about that driver last. They wanna think about that person that's operating that truck first and foremost and get them paid. You also gotta realize you gotta recruit.

36:12 - 36:50
David Withers: So if you have somebody in a truck and they decide they find another opportunity better than what you're providing at some point, then guess what? You're gonna have an empty truck and you're gonna start recruiting for that truck. So one great thing that we do at ES is if our fleet owners lose an operator, we're not always 100% successful in doing it, but we offer that ability to lean on us as well to try to help you find another driver. So we can do that. But you've got equipment utilization that you got concerned with at that point, additional compliance requirements.

36:50 - 37:22
David Withers: You got another truck, another driver just stacks up the compliance as well. And it only goes up from there. So if you build from one truck to two trucks to 10 trucks to twenty and thirty and more. Right time, one thing I wrote in, the right time to add another truck is when the first truck is consistently profitable and the business processes are stable. So you gotta make sure that stability is there with the one truck before you start trying to add more problems.

37:22 - 37:53
David Withers: Because growth should solve problems, but it really creates I mean, it really it just multiplies your problems that you may have already in one truck. So just, you know, it's kinda like the old adage of, you know, if I move, maybe all these problems I I deal with will change. Well, the the usually the common denominator is that person that's moving to another location, all those problems still go with them. Just a different just a different scenery. So same thing with one truck going to to multiple.

37:54 - 38:05
Ginger Craddock: Absolutely. Absolutely. And so as we think about looking ahead, David, what does the next generation of trucking entrepreneurship look like?

38:06 - 38:30
David Withers: Yeah. I mean, I think they're gonna be more business focused and more technology enabled, quite honestly. They're gonna have the ability to have more real time data, better business tools are gonna be at their fingertips. We all talk AI now. If you haven't said AI in the last week, then you might be living under a rock because, you know, it's here and it's present.

38:32 - 39:32
David Withers: Better training resources, I think. Think that, you know, I know from thirty years ago, gosh, it's already it's lightning speed ahead of what we were thirty years ago in terms of offering better training resources, better training programs from schooling and from the motor carrier aspect and doing that better. Stronger support networks as well. But when the next generation just really what it comes down to is if they're going to have more tools at their hands to run a business successfully is really what it comes down to. If you're out there currently running a business, whether it be a trucking business or any kind of business, and you're not using the data that's out there and the tools that are out there on the Internet, the AI's resources, if you're not figuring out how to do that, you're already behind.

39:32 - 40:02
David Withers: Your business is already suffering because those are tools that can help you. I mean, if you don't, I mean, if you don't know what, what your cost per mile is, do an AI search on how to do it. I mean, it'll it'll pop just like that and tell you. So I mean, if you have questions, you know, use those tools just like you would if you're talking to a partner or if you're talking to somebody you're trying to get educated with. Ask those questions the same way.

40:02 - 40:34
David Withers: If it comes back and it gives an odd response, question it. Don't just take the answer for face value and that AI has just got it all together and just because it's AI, it's correct, because that's not the case. Sometimes it does provide some false feedback or some errant data and question it and push it and it starts learning and it gets to no use. So those tools are there. I think the next generation are gonna master those tools because we still got a lot of folks that are I mean, I'm going into my mid fifties here shortly in February.

40:34 - 40:50
David Withers: I'll be 55. So I feel like I've got a good grasp on technology, but I know that there's a lot of folks that are right at my age and a little bit higher that do not. They just don't use it. They don't want to use it. So there's a lot of trucking owners out there currently.

40:50 - 41:08
David Withers: There's a lot of just truck drivers out there currently that are still in that age bracket that are still a ways off from retirement that are operating that don't use that stuff. I just would encourage you to use it. I think the next generation is already using it and they're going to be masters of it by the time they're my age.

41:09 - 41:31
Ginger Craddock: Absolutely. And so I wanna take you now and have you tell me about someone that you've watched make the transition from driver to successful business owner. What did that person understand or do differently that made you believe that they they were gonna make it?

41:32 - 42:10
David Withers: So, you know, when when I saw this question that you would come at me or was presented, I deal I'm a director of operations and recruiting. So I'm not in the truck conversation every day like my service coordinator and our ops team is. Those folks there, they're in the heat of the battle with those truck owners. So one, just one person, I mean, I've seen multiple cases, I can't really name the one person, but just using the model, I mean, track their expenses. They know their fuel economy.

42:10 - 42:31
David Withers: They understand maintenance cost. It's just all the things for their costs that they understand and they just, they got it. They went from just driving a truck to know and owning a truck to know what they themselves knowing what entrepreneurship is, when they just it clicked one day. What what day was it? I don't know.

42:31 - 43:09
David Withers: But it just it clicked one day and and I mean, their success really comes from just the what we talked about earlier, the consistency, the drive to be successful, but the consistency of just doing really the boring stuff. Most of your successful people in life just do the boring things over and over again consistently and they do them well. Sometimes they do them not so well. They just do them to check the box because we all are human and we have those days, right? But they're consistently doing them.

43:09 - 43:23
David Withers: And that's really what the most successful owners are. They're just consistent and they continue doing the same things over and over again. And they see the success because of that. They're accepting loads. They're available for loads.

43:23 - 43:35
David Withers: They're on time. They're providing exceptional service to the customer and to the motor carrier. Those are the simple things that if you're just consistent, then you're gonna be successful in your business.

43:35 - 43:52
Ginger Craddock: Absolutely. Absolutely. We're gonna pivot now to what I like here at the end, the rapid fire sequence. And so rapid fire, company driver or owner operator. Which is harder, David?

43:53 - 44:00
David Withers: Oh, I think just if you've listened to this conversation for almost an hour, owner operator is definitely harder.

44:00 - 44:04
Ginger Craddock: Biggest misconception about truck ownership?

44:05 - 44:07
David Withers: That revenue equals success.

44:09 - 44:16
Ginger Craddock: That brings us to revenue or profit. Profit. 100% profit first.

44:16 - 44:18
David Withers: Gotta be profit.

44:18 - 44:31
Ginger Craddock: Yeah. Have that there's a book called Profit First, and it teaches you how to put it in the bucket. So, yes, revenue does not equal profit. One number every owner operator should know.

44:31 - 44:33
David Withers: No. I've already said in the beginning cost per mile.

44:33 - 44:34
Ginger Craddock: Cost per mile.

44:34 - 44:36
David Withers: 100%. Per mile. Yep.

44:36 - 44:40
Ginger Craddock: One characteristic successful owners have in common?

44:41 - 44:42
David Withers: Discipline.

44:43 - 44:46
Ginger Craddock: Biggest mistake first time owners make?

44:48 - 44:50
David Withers: Underestimating operating expenses.

44:53 - 44:59
Ginger Craddock: As a business builder, guilty. Yes. Learned it the hard way. Yes.

44:59 - 44:59
David Withers: Yep.

45:00 - 45:03
Ginger Craddock: Is truck ownership still worth pursuing?

45:05 - 45:08
David Withers: It is if he approaches a business. Yes.

45:09 - 45:15
Ginger Craddock: Absolutely. And what gives you optimism about trucking right now?

45:17 - 45:50
David Withers: Entrepreneurial spirit. Just the people that enter in the industry that there's so many that's entering this industry that that they wanna drive. They wanna learn how to drive, but they really their their goal just talking to them, their goal is to to own a truck at some point and to be a business owner. So I think just that there's more entrepreneurship in this country now than there probably was even ten years ago, just because of the visibility of technology and what we see and what we intake on things like this podcast and things of that nature.

45:51 - 46:11
Ginger Craddock: Absolutely. So David, if a professional driver is listening today and and he or she is thinking, I want to own my own truck and build something for myself, what's the first question you would tell them to answer before they take that step?

46:12 - 46:23
David Withers: Am I prepared to operate a business? I mean, that's that's really and I know it's it's boring. We've said it. But, I mean, are you prepared? It's not just a truck that you're owning.

46:23 - 46:32
David Withers: Are you prepared to run it as a business and and and to operate as a business? Know all your numbers. That's that's really is the crux of it.

46:33 - 46:52
Ginger Craddock: Absolutely. So, David, if our listeners would like to know how to get in touch with you, Where can our listeners connect with you and learn more about expediter services and the opportunities that you're there to help people build their businesses?

46:53 - 47:16
David Withers: Yes. Our website's essuccessintrucking.com, so they can go there. I my email address, if you wanna put it I don't know if you can put it in notes, but it's dwithers@expediterservices.com. So just my first initial, my last name. You can get me there, or call our office at (877) 349-9303.

47:16 - 47:18
David Withers: I'll be happy to talk to you.

47:18 - 47:18
Ginger Craddock: Absolutely.

47:19 - 47:19
David Withers: For me.

47:20 - 47:33
Ginger Craddock: Absolutely. So, David, thank you for the thoughtful conversation to, today, and keep helping the people build successful businesses at Expeditor Services. Thank you, sir. Thank

47:33 - 47:34
David Withers: you, Jason.